Subject: ARM platforms

From: Simon Kilvington <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 15:22:06 +0000

Hi,

	I've been messing about with my old Acorn A5000 and I've got
ARM Linux running on it quite nicely (though I basically had to build
the whole thing from scratch - which was good fun!). Now I want to
get a decent ARM based computer and I was wondering what the options
are? I want to be able to run X on it and I want to have it networked
with my PC. I've got a cross-compiling environment on my PC so I can
build the system from scratch like I did with the A5000, it's just a
question of which board/machine to buy. Am I better off getting a
second hand RISC PC, or this "Netwinder" that gets mentioned here
quite a bit, or wait for one of these companies who are going to be
selling RISC OS based systems?

	TIA for any suggestions,

-- 
Simon Kilvington, [email-masked]
unsubscribe: body of `unsubscribe linux-arm' to [email-masked]

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From: Philip Blundell <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 15:50:52 +0100

>with my PC. I've got a cross-compiling environment on my PC so I can

I wouldn't really recommend a RiscPC.  My suggestion would be either the 
Rebel.com NetWinder or the Chalice CATS.  The former is probably a bit more of 
a polished product and is a rather cuter design, but the latter is rather more 
expandable since it has standard PCI, ISA and USB ports, not to mention
memory and disk.  Either should be quite well able to run X and networking.

In CPU performance terms the NetWinder is somewhat better as shipped, though 
you could probably wind up the wick on a CATS to the same level if you felt 
the urge.

>or wait for one of these companies who are going to be

I'd avoid the ARM7500 based ones; their performance won't exactly be stellar.  
I don't know enough about the others to comment really.

p.

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From: Alex Holden <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 18:03:48 +0100 (GMT)

On Thu, 29 Jul 1999, Philip Blundell wrote:
> rather more  expandable since it has standard PCI, ISA and USB ports,

Is the USB supported by the standard Linux UHCI or OHCI drivers, or does a
driver need to be written for it yet?

--------------- Linux- the choice of a GNU generation. --------------
: Alex Holden (M1CJD)- Caver, Programmer, Land Rover nut, Radio Ham :

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From: Philip Blundell <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 18:43:01 +0100

Alex Holden wrote:

>> rather more  expandable since [CATS] has standard PCI, ISA and USB ports,
>

It should work with the OHCI driver.  I don't have any USB peripherals so I 
haven't checked it out very thoroughly, but the driver seems happy enough to 
find the interface, set it up and go looking for devices.

p.

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From: James Craig <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 19:40:20 +0100 (BST)

> find the interface, set it up and go looking for devices.
I'm using the UHCI support on my x86, and I have to say that with nothing
but my USB monitor/hub plugged in, it's the most horrifically unstable
thing I've ever seen in a linux kernel. While it might work, I don't
think you could call it even vaguely reliable. Unplugging or plugging in
anything on mine causes Ooopses, and some 2.3 kernels actually just kill
the damn machine if I install USB support at all. Basically: YMMV majorly.
:)

 --
James Craig <[email-masked]>
            <[email-masked]>

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From: Terry Ewing <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 12:10:02 -0700

Approximately how much does a NetWinder cost in USD?

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From: <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 14:27:54 -0500 (CDT)

Too much for what you get.:)

Seriously, I have no definite figures because I haven't looked in a
while, but when I was looking at them, they were horrificly overpriced
compared to x86 systems, and I doubt that has changed much.  While they
are fun, an x86 platform is more cost effective.  Of course, this is in
the USA also, not sure about international price comparisons.

--
Kyle Mestery			| StorageTek's Storage Networking Group
[email-masked]		| http://www.freebsd.org/
[email-masked]		| http://www.netwinder.org/
	Protect your right to privacy: www.freecrypto.org

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From: Alex Holden <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 08:41:48 +0100 (GMT)

> Approximately how much does a NetWinder cost in USD?

http://www.rebel.com/order/nw-na-srp.htm?nwsa

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From: Alex Holden <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 09:04:31 +0100 (GMT)

> compared to x86 systems, and I doubt that has changed much.  While they

Did you price up a x86 system with a 250Mips or greater processor, 64MB of
RAM, a 2MB video card, both a PCINE2K card and a Tulip card, built in 4Mb
IRDA, a video capture port, a video output port, a 16 bit sound card with
a built in mike, speaker, line in, line out, handset, and telephone
connectors for getting the audio in and out, a nice large volume control
built into the case, serial, parallel, PS2 keyboard and mouse ports, a
decent quality keyboard (without the Windoze key) and mouse, a CPU usage
LED built into the front of the case, firmware which allows netbooting and
booting from ROM, a software controlled switch on the case you can use for
controlling it when you don't have a keyboard attached, which comes with
Linux preinstalled, all in a very cool looking, smaller than notebook
sized case which you can mount both horizontally and vertically, generates
virtually no noise if you turn the fan off (it isn't needed most
of the time), comes with Linux pre-installed out of the box (admittedly 
CCC/Corel/HCC/Rebel's distribution isn't great and was even worse in the
past, but TitanVI is much better and we (Zereau) will be shipping our
Winder's with it and possibly offering upgrades to it (certainly selling 
CDs with it on), is also available in a "two machines in a slim rackmount
case" form, is available with a SCSI controller, will soon be available 
with a built in modem or ISDN, can run off a 12VDC power supply, and
consumes about 13 Watts of power? The NetWinder isn't just a PC, and you
can't compare it directly to one.

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From: Alex Holden <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 11:12:29 +0100 (GMT)

> find the interface, set it up and go looking for devices.

Cool. Is the USB interface a seperate device or integrated with something
else? What actual device is it?

More generally, how would people feel about a NetWinder with a USB port?
How much extra would you be willing to pay for it?

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From: Philip Blundell <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 11:25:55 +0100

>else? What actual device is it?

It's part of the Aladdin 1543 southbridge.

>More generally, how would people feel about a NetWinder with a USB port?

Interesting idea.  I can't immediately think of anything it would be very 
useful for (since the netwinder is quite well equipped with traditional I/O 
ports anyhow) but it does sound like a good thing to have.  I've no idea how 
much it's worth to customers.

p.

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From: Paul Koning <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 11:06:26 -0400

>>>>> "Alex" == Alex Holden <[email-masked]> writes:

 Alex> On Thu, 29 Jul 1999 [email-masked] wrote:
 >> while, but when I was looking at them, they were horrificly
 >> overpriced compared to x86 systems, and I doubt that has changed
 >> much.  While they

 Alex> Did you price up a x86 system with a 250Mips or greater
 Alex> processor, 64MB of RAM, a 2MB video card, both a PCINE2K card
 Alex> and a Tulip card, built in 4Mb IRDA, a video capture port, a
 Alex> video output port, a 16 bit sound card with a built in mike,
 Alex> speaker, line in, line out, handset, and telephone connectors
 Alex> for getting the audio in and out, a nice large volume control
 Alex> built into the case, serial, parallel, PS2 keyboard and mouse
 Alex> ports, a decent quality keyboard (without the Windoze key) and
 Alex> mouse, a CPU usage LED built into the front of the case...

Well, apart from the LED and the Ethernet cards (two?  And why one
good one and one bad one?) I think the going price for such an x86
platform right now is about $300.

Netwinders looked somewhat promising when they were first announced,
but since then PC prices have been cut in half, if not more...

	paul

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From: Alex Holden <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 16:24:17 +0100 (GMT)

> platform right now is about $300.

Where did you find an x86 system with so many built in peripherals, a
network boot ROM, Linux pre-installed, 13W power consumption, and a cute
looking case for only $300?

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From: "Neil A. Carson" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 09:43:09 -0700

> How much extra would you be willing to pay for it?

Might be useful... But extra? Nothing, since it's built into most S.
bridges these days.
unsubscribe: body of `unsubscribe linux-arm' to [email-masked]

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From: Alex Holden <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 17:54:38 +0100 (GMT)

> Might be useful... But extra? Nothing, since it's built into most S.

Not in the NetWinder. If we were to add one, it would have to be an extra
device on the daughtercard, and obviously we wouldn't do that for free. It
would only be worth it if people wanted USB enough to pay extra for it.

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From: "Neil A. Carson" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 09:46:33 -0700

> looking case for only $300?

If you're making the system, you can add the video, audio and 2x
ethernet stuff (better chips) for under 70 bucks.

And what's mroe, it'll be a damn site faster than the Netwinder :)

	Neil