Subject: Comparisons

From: James Porritt <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 01 Jul 1997 21:54:39 GMT

Hi. 
	I'm currently using RiscBSD and am considering switching to ARMLinux.
One of the reasons for doing so, is the smaller size of binaries for Linux.
Are there any other reasons which I should consider? Is it wise to switch at
the moment, or should I wait until the ELF binaries are available? Has anyone
done the switch which I am planning, and do they regret switching? How do the
two Unices compare? What is ARMLinux like, compared to PC Linux? Sorry for
asking all these questions! :)

Thanks in advance
Poz.

-- 
           James (Poz) Porritt - 2nd year CompSci at Durham University
   Email: [email-masked]    WWW: http://www.fluff.org/poz    Pager: 0336 754684      
... The worst thing about censorship is .

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From: Manar Hussain <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 09:07:39 +0100 (BST)

>asking all these questions! :)

For the record - the main reason the binaries are smaller under Arm/Linux
is because the current public offering for RiscBSD does not support shared
libraries. As you may well know the NetBSD/Arm32 port (c. = RiscBSD) has
had considerable time and effort put into it related to work to support the
network computer and that most of these changes have not yet been pushed
back into the public source tree. You may also be aware that these changes
will be pushed back very shortly (it's the first priority after certain
very soon to finish / recently finished priorities for finishing the NC
work).

I'm 99% sure that shared libraries have been publically mentioned as one of
the many improvements that will be coming in as a result of this work being
pulled back into the public source tree shortly.

Manar

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From: Alan Cox <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 09:31:34 +0100 (BST)

> pulled back into the public source tree shortly.

Have they gone to ELF libraries and is there stuff that could be useful to
the Linux community, or two both for standardisation issues ? Obviously
actual code sharing is tricky (even more so now that the new NetBSD requires
Chris Demetriou is credited on every document/advert for a product based
on it), but trying to keep some kind of sane standards between the two
will help everyone

Alan

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From: Manar Hussain <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 09:39:31 +0100 (BST)

>the Linux community, or two both for standardisation issues ? Obviously

I don't believe so - though not for a lack of interest/desire in
cross-compatibility

Manar

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From: Ale Terlevich <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 10:53:13 +0100 (BST)

> Are there any other reasons which I should consider? Is it wise to switch at

  I tried switching yesterday, just to see what ARMLinux was like, but I
couldn't get it to recognise my EtherH card. Every kernel/boot/suplemental
combination I tried gave an error about incompatible symbols in my kernel,
even if I tried insmod -f.  I can only assume this is a problem with my
card not being recognised as an EtherH card? It's one of the Acorn ones. 

  I'm back with RiscBSD now :)

Ale.

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From: Ale Terlevich <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 10:57:18 +0100 (BST)

> I don't believe so - though not for a lack of interest/desire in

 I'm no expert on ELF/a.out differences, but IIRC a.out on Linux isn't 
position independant (i.e. each library has to have it's own adress 
space to run in) which was the main reason for going ELF. a.out on NetBSD 
is position independant, so ELF isn't so urgently needed.

  I may of course be completely wrong :)

Ale.

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From: Alan Cox <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 16:35:10 +0100 (BST)

> card not being recognised as an EtherH card? It's one of the Acorn ones. 

That sounds like the module for your card wasnt built to match the kernels

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From: "Neil A. Carson" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 1997 20:22:11 +0100 (BST)

> asking all these questions! :)

ARMLinux is a fine product, though a bit lacking in drivers for more modern
hardware. At the moment, binaries are smaller for linux because of the use
of fixed-address shared libraries. When we get round to doing the
much-talked-about-but-not-seen NetBSD mega-source-merge, full position
independant shared libaries will be available, using existing modified
versions of gcc, for all. This could benefit the Linux community (and the
rest of the ARM community for that matter) in return. All that's needed is
for someone (Phil?) to do some clever work with the Linux linker for handling
position independant code (we don't use binutils, as it's dreadful).

As for the rest, I won't comment, because I'd be seen as biased (despite the
fact that I hate unix in all forms!).

	Neil

-- 
Neil A. Carson
Marketing Director              Causality Limited (London, UK)
Tel/Fax: +44 (0)181 930 7408    Mobile: +44 (0)370 593183
Email: [email-masked]       WWW: http://www.causality.com.

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From: Richard Townsend <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 20:52:44 +0100 (BST)

> > asking all these questions! :)

Hmm, for me the most important difference is that I can't use RiscBSD on 
my A3020, but *can* use AL (well, in the near future....hint hint).

just my 2p worth

Rich

PS A good anagram of "TONY BLAIR MP" is "I'M TORY PLAN B". Ho ho. 

+-------------------------------------+--------------------+
| Richard Townsend                    |                    |
| Department of Physics & Astronomy   | "Old pond,         |
| University College London           |   frog jumps in -  |
| Gower Street                        |    plop"           |
| London WC1E 6BT                     |                    |
| Work: (0171) 419 3410               |              Basho |
| Home: (0171) 284 0888 Ext 8037      |                    |
+-------------------------------------+--------------------+

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From: [email-masked]
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 21:02:50 +0100 (BST)

> card not being recognised as an EtherH card? It's one of the Acorn ones. 

Some more details would be helpful.  Eg.  What installation method are you
using?  Are you using the latest disk and kernel as of Sunday night?
   _____
  |_____| ------------------------------------------------- ---+---+-
  |   |       Russell King      [email-masked]         --- ---
  | | | | http://whirligig.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~rmk92/home.html  /  /  |
  | +-+-+                                                     --- -+-
  /   |               THE developer of ARM Linux              |+| /|\
 /  | | |      *  who wishes that he was in Hong Kong  *      ---  |
    +-+-+ -------------------------------------------------  /\\\  |

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From: Ale Terlevich <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 10:40:16 +0100 (BST)

> using?  Are you using the latest disk and kernel as of Sunday night?

  Ok, it works now (I have a 24+2MB RiscPC. Presumably this was the problem?)

Shall try ArmLinux as soon as my HD finishes backing up!

Ale.